Contemplating on λείβηθρον

HOW TO PRONOUNCE ANCIENT GREEK

λείβηθρον => brzak, potochno mesto kade shto vodata brzo izvira od nekoj karpi…

λεί => vo Makedonskiot da “NA-LEE”, “LEA” brzak ili mesto kade shto vodata teche brzo… NA-LEI VINO na primer itn. Go ima i vo drugi Slavjanski Jazici, na pr Ruski по-лей-те

i vo Antichkiot Grchki e prisutno kako λειβω so smisla da NALEE vo nesho …. So istata Smisla e i Vo Moderniot “Slavo” Makedonski…

LEI VO => To pour some where in….

Modernio Grchki zbor za λειβω => χύστε

βηθρον:

β koja ima glasovna vrednost kako English “B” i preku vremeto se razvilo vo “V”
“θ” preminuva vo “δ” shto ima Glasovna Vrednost na “D”..

“η” se chita najchesto kako “ē” i preku vremeto se razvilo vo “I”

BETRON so vremeto preminalo vo VEDRON => sodrzhi korenot za VODA so posebna gramatichka konstrukcija

Na Makedonski i na nekoj Drugi Slavjanski Jazici kako na Pr. na Ruski:см. выдру
Na Moderen Makedonski VIDRA sho na na angliski znachi SEE OTTER…. ZHIVOTNO SHTO PRETEZHNO ZHIVEE VO VODATA…

Interesno e deka VODA i VETER imaat slichna etimologija. I dvata zbora opishuvaat Dejstvo na Dvizhenje. V- ODA znachi VO-OD kako ODI.
VE-TER ima isto Dejstvo na Dvizhenje. No Vetrot ne se Dvizhi sam, tuku gi podvizhuva rabotite/predmetite. Na Makedonski isto ima zbor TERA => DA PRIDVIZHUVA NESHTO ili NEKOJ.
VE-TER bi bukvalno znachelo NEKOJ SHTO E VO TERANJE, PRIDVIZHUVANJE…

Seto toa pokazhuva deka λείβηθρον IMA SMISLA I ETIMOLOSHKA PA I GRAMATICHKI OSTATOCI VO MODERNIOT MAKEDONSKI JAZIK….

Languages Map prior 1912-13

The Map represents the German view of the Language Groups of the Balkan prior to the Balkan wars 1912-13.

Notice the Language Group “Macedonian” written in German as “Mazedonier”.

CARNEGIE ENDOWMENT FOR INTERNATIONAL PEACE, WASHINGTON, D. C., 1914

From the book “REPORT OF THE INTERNATIONAL COMMISSION To Inquire into the Causes and Conduct OF THE BALKAN WARS” by CARNEGIE ENDOWMENT FOR INTERNATIONAL PEACE, WASHINGTON, D. C., 1914, page 59.


This is a letter from a Greek soldier:

From the same book as above, page 308.

Posted by Jordan Piperkata

Brailsford Macedonia

Quotes of Philipiki – Demostenes

Philip entirely destroyed Olynthus and thirty-two other
towns, sold their inhabitantsinto slavery, brought the
whole of Chalcidice within the Macedonian Empire, and
celebrated his conquests by a festival in honour of the
Olympian Zeus at Dium.

...................................................

It may be that many of the Hellenes would be glad to
serve under him against Egypt,[n] againstOrontas,[n]
or against certain other foreign powers--not from a
wish that the king should conquer any such enemies,
but because each desires individually to obtain some
private means to relieve his present poverty.
But I cannot believe that any Hellene would march
against Hellas. Whither will he turn afterwards?
Will he go to Phrygia and be a slave?

....................................................

And indeed it is not even to the king's own interest
to conquer the Hellenes with a mercenary force;
for an army which has conquered us is, even more
certainly,[n] stronger than he; and his intention
is not to destroy us only that he may fall into the
power of others: he wishes to rule, if it may be, over
all the world; but if not, at least over those who 
are already his slaves.

....................................................

For the Olynthians know well that they are not fighting
now for honour and glory, nor for a strip of territory,
but to avert the devastation and enslavement of their
country.

.....................................................

Surely it is not like sober or high-minded men to submit
light-heartedly to the reproach which must follow upon
any shortcomings in the operations of the war through want
of funds--to seize your weapons and march against Corinthians
and Megareans,[n] and then to allow Philip to enslave
Hellenic cities, because you cannot find rations for your
troops.

.....................................................

Who was it that persuaded you to send embassies almost as
far as the Red Sea, on the ground that Philip was plotting
against Hellas, and that it was for you to foresee this and
not to sacrifice the interests of the Hellenes?
Was it not Eubulus who proposed the decree, while the
ambassador to the Peloponnese was the defendant Aeschines?
What expressions he used in his address to the people, after
he arrived there, is best known to himself: but I know you
all remember what he reported to you. {305} Many a time
in the course of his speech he called Philip 'barbarian' 
and 'devil';

.........................................................

and Macedonians, foreigners, men who never were Amphictyons
in the past, are now forcing their way to recognition;

taken from:
PHILIPPIC 

Origins of the Slavs – Y chromosom

UPDATE (March 17):

From the paper:

The most outstanding populations were those of Poland and northern Belarus, while populations of central Belarus, southern Belarus and Slovakia were genetically indistinguishable.

…

The most apparent genetic distance was found between the northern (Eastern and Western) and Southern Slavs, who at the end of the 9th century were separated by the invasion of Finno-
Ugric Hungarians […] The observed northern Slavic Y-STR genetic homogeneity extends from Slovakia and Ukraine to parts of Russia and Belarus, but also involves Southern-Slavic populations of Slovenia and western Croatia, and is the most probably due to a homogeneous genetic substrate inherited from the ancestral Slavic population. However, due to the Y-STR proximity of linguistically and geographically Southern-Slavic Slovenes and western Croats to the northern Slavic branch, the observed genetic differentiation cannot simply be explained by the separation of both Slavic-speaking groups by the non-Slavic Romanians, Hungarians, and Germanspeaking Austrians […] Thus, the contribution of the Y chromosomes of peoples who settled in the region before the Slavic expansion to the genetic heritage of Southern Slavs is the most likely explanation for this phenomenon. On the other hand, our results indicate no significant genetic traces of pre-sixth-century inhabitants of present-day Slovenia in the Slovene Y chromosome genetic pool.

…

AMOVA revealed significant differences in Y-STR distribution between Slavic and Baltic populations (P Proto-Slavs did not carry this lineage at a substantial frequency, since it is relatively rare among Slavs and at high frequency was observed only in some Russian subpopulations (Malyarchuk et al. 2004).

…

we estimated haplogroup N3 frequencies in the three Belarusian subpopulations. The results suggest that the uniqueness of the northern Belarusian population is most likely due to the high incidence of Y chromosomes from the haplogroup N3 (18.9%), which has half the frequency in central and southern Belarus (8.8 and 8.1%, respectively). Therefore, although the early ethnogenesis of the Belarusian nation has customarily been linked to the gradual Slavicisation of the homogeneous Baltic substrate on the territory of present-day Belarus (Sedov 1970), only northern Belarus seems to be a transient area for the Baltic and Slavic settlement.

…

Because Slavs unequivocally enter the records of history as late as the sixth century AD, when their expansion in Eastern Europe was already advanced, different theories concerning the Slavs’ geographic origin based on archaeological, anthropological and/or linguistic data have been formulated. Two such theories have gained the largest support among the scientists (Schenker 1995), one placing the cradle of Slavs in the watershed of the Vistula and Oder rivers (present-day Poland), and the other locating it in the watershed of the middle Dnieper (present-day Ukraine). Our results indicate that using the population-of-origin approach based on the AMOVA, as many as nine (P > 0.05) or ten (P > 0.01) populations can be traced back to the lands of present-day Ukraine, including Eastern-Slavic Russians and Belarusians, Western-Slavic Poles and Slovaks, and Southern-Slavic Slovenes and Croats.

…

Results of the interpopulation Y-STR haplotype analysis exclude a significant contribution of ancient tribes inhabiting present-day Poland to the gene pool of Eastern and Southern Slavs, and suggest that the Slavic expansion started from present-day Ukraine, thus supporting the hypothesis that places the earliest known homeland of Slavs in the basin of the middle Dnieper.

UPDATE 2

The paper confirms some points that were already known by previous work, namely the Y chromosomal homogeneity of Slavs. Some Slavic groups such as Czechs are missing from the analysis. The homogeneity is less visible in groups that have absorbed significant substrata, i.e., in some Balkan populations and in populations that have absorbed Finno-Ugrian elements characterized by haplogroup N3.

The interpretation of the homogeneity would benefit greatly by an estimation of time depth. There are not dates in the paper, so it is not clear (although possible) that the homogeneity is due to the medieval Slavic dispersal.

The use of Y-STRs is useful for estimating historical relationships, but a limited number of these is used for most populations except for the core group where 18 STRs were used. The use of binary haplogroup data – used in the paper only for the presence of haplogroup N3 – would help determine the elements present in the different populations. The chosen approach gives no insight about the genetic identity of the population of Proto-Slavs.

The paper does make a good case for Ukraine being the Proto-Slavic homeland, since Poland emerges clearly as a destination of a subset of Y chromosome diversity rather than as a unifying source of diversity observed in all major Slavic sub-groups. But, the date of the Out-of-Ukraine expansion, likely to be reflected in specific haplogroup R1a1 subclades is not established and must await further research.

Journal of Human Genetics (online early)

Y-STR variation among Slavs: evidence for the Slavic homeland in the middle Dnieper basin

Krzysztof Rębała, Alexei I. Mikulich, Iosif S. Tsybovsky, Daniela Siváková, Zuzana Džupinková, Aneta Szczerkowska-Dobosz and Zofia Szczerkowska

Abstract A set of 18 Y-chromosomal microsatellite loci was analysed in 568 males from Poland, Slovakia and three regions of Belarus. The results were compared to data available for 2,937 Y chromosome samples from 20 other Slavic populations. Lack of relationship between linguistic, geographic and historical relations between Slavic populations and Y-short tandem repeat (STR) haplotype distribution was observed. Two genetically distant groups of Slavic populations were revealed: one encompassing all Western-Slavic, Eastern-Slavic, and two Southern-Slavic populations, and one encompassing all remaining Southern Slavs. An analysis of molecular variance (AMOVA) based on Y-chromosomal STRs showed that the variation observed between the two population groups was 4.3%, and was higher than the level of genetic variance among populations within the groups (1.2%). Homogeneity of northern Slavic paternal lineages in Europe was shown to stretch from the Alps to the upper Volga and involve ethnicities speaking completely different branches of Slavic languages. The central position of the population of Ukraine in the network of insignificant AMOVA comparisons, and the lack of traces of significant contribution of ancient tribes inhabiting present-day Poland to the gene pool of Eastern and Southern Slavs, support hypothesis placing the earliest known homeland of Slavs in the middle Dnieper basin.

Link

Labels: Slavs, Y chromosome

Pub Med

Thracian Language II

DADALEME

The Bulgarian Dechev interprets it as a personal name Dadalemes although this name is not attested in any source. The Bulgarian Georgiev the following interpretation: “Da, dale me!” which is supposed to mean “Land, protect me!”. Georgiev comes to this conclusion by basing his work on the assumption that the Albanian language is a descendant of Thracian, in Albanian it would be said as “Dhem del/zot me”.

One problem here is the fact that the word for land/earth in Thracian is already defined as “Don”, therefore it should be written as such on the inscription, which it isn’t, let alone “Dhem”.

Another problem is why would somebody engrave “Land, protect me!” on a vessel which is used for liquids? A ridiculous attempt with no sound evidence to back up the outrageous claim, nor any relevance to the subject matter. Lets take a look at the definitions of vessel on the Web:
http://www.google.com.au/search?hl=en&defl=en&q=define:vessel&sa=X&oi=glossary_definition&ct=title
– a tube in which a body fluid circulates
– a craft designed for water transportation
– an object used as a container (especially for liquids)

In Macedonian, the word LEI means “to pour”, and LEIME means “we pour”, DA LEIME means “we (shall) pour”, DAI DA LEIME means “(give) we (shall) pour”.

DA LEIME
DAI DA LEIME
DADALEME; Thracian inscription on vessel.

The Kjolmen inscription is one of the longest inscription in Thracian. It goes like this (written in the Greek script):

ΝΥΑΖΝΑΛΕΤΕΔΝΥΕΔΝΕΝΕΝΙΔΑΚΑΤΡ.Σ.ΙΒΑΡ.ΖΕΣΑΣΝ
ΗΝΕΤΕΖΑΙƆΕΚ.Α
ΝΒΛΑΒΑΕƆΝ

This inscription is written on piece of stone resembling a tombstone. It was found in a graveyard. So, on it should be a text that is typically written on tombstones, like the name of the deceased, numbers: years, dates, or some form of a message.

Note: One thing typical about grave inscriptions in the Balkans, especially the older ones from the first times when the Old Cyrillic was used, is that the message on the tombstone is in the 1st person singular, as if the dead man was talking of his fate.

What I noticed is written in the first line, observe:

ΝΥΑΖ ΝΑ ΛΕΤ ΕΔΝΥ ΕΔΝΕΝ-Ι-ΔΑΚΑΤΡ .Σ.ΙΒΑΡ. ΖΑΣΕΣΝ

It is only one of the possibilities of how to put spaces between words. What I noticed is the word ΛΕΤ (let) which in most Slavic languages means ‘year’ or ‘years’ and then I noticed the ΕΔΝ (edn) which means ‘one’. ΔΑΚΑ means ‘ten’ in Greek (δεκα). ΕΔΝΕΝ-Ι-ΔΑΚΑ (ednen i daka) would then mean ‘eleven’ (one and ten). I couldn’t figure out what ΤΡ after ΔΑΚΑ means, but after it the following letter and word are separated by stops, so I presume that would be the name of the deceased S. Ibar. I don’t know what ΖΑΣΕΣΝ means, but it could mean ‘dead’ or ‘died’ as in Slavic ‘zosnuti’ (inf.) hence ‘zosneni’.
The beginning of the line starts with ΝΥΑΖ which could mean ‘I, me’.
ΛΕΤΕΔΝΥ can be separated either as ΛΕΤΕ ΔΝΥ or ΛΕΤ ΕΔΝΥ or even ΛΕΤΕ EΔΝΥ. Each would have a different meaning. ΝΑ ΛΕΤ ΕΔΝΥ would mean ‘in the years of some’ i.e. ‘in some years’ then if we look at it whole:
ΝΑ ΛΕΤ ΕΔΝΥ ΕΔΝΕΝ-Ι-ΔΑΚΑΤΡ ‘in some eleven years’ as in ‘when I was some eleven years’.
So the whole text would be ‘When in some eleven years I, S. Ibar, have died’.

It makes some sense, but it could mean something completely different.
The only thing that seem certain to me is ΕΔΝΕΝ-Ι-ΔΑΚΑ which definitely means ‘eleven’ in Thracian.

English
Thraco-Brygian
Slavic

AT THE CENTRE OF THE SHINY WHITE CITY I SAW FREEDOM
SERDI SVIT BALIO GORD AS WITE SABAZIA
SREDE SVETIO BELIO GRAD JAS VIDE SLOBODA

I BUILT MY OWN HOME ON THE GREEN EARTH
AS DIDZA DUM OE ANA SEMLA ZILMA
JAS DZIDA DOM SVOE NA ZEMJA ZELENA

HE SAW A GOLDEN SNAKE ON THE PATHWAY AT THE DAMP COAST
TO WITE SALTA ZUML ORU ANA LAZA ANA MARKA BERGA
TOJ VIDE ZLATNA ZMIJA GORE NA LAZA NA MOKRA BREGA

I QUICKLY GAVE VEGETABLES TO THE ANIMAL’S MOUTH
AS BRUZA DADON ZELKIA ANA ZVERI OSTA
JAS BRZO DADOV ZELKA NA DZVER USTA

English-Slavic-Thracian/Brygian:
I – JAS – AS(N)
QUICK – BRZA – BRUZA
AT/ON – NA – ANA
CENTRE – SREDE – SERDIK (from Serdica-Sreditsa now Sofia)
WHITE – BELIO – BALIO
BUILD – DZIDA – DIDZA
COAST – BREG – BERGA
DAMP – MOKRO – MARKA
MOUTH – USTA – OSTA
FREE – SLOBODA – SABAZIA
GOLD – ZLATA – SALTA
EARTH – ZEMJA – SEMLA
SHINE – SVET – SVIT
ANIMAL – DZVER – ZVERI
GREEN – ZELENA – ZILMA
SNAKE – ZMIA – ZUML
GAVE – DADOA – DADON
HOME – DOM – DUMO
CITY – GRADA – GORDU
SELF – SVOJE – VE/OE
HE LOOKED/SAW – VIDE TOI – WITETO
VEGETABLES – ZELKA – ZELKIA
UP – GORE – ORU
PATHWAY – LAZA – LAZA

http://indoeuro.bizland.com/project/glossary/thra.html
http://indoeuro.bizland.com/project/glossary/phry.html

Initially posted by SoM and Slovak

Cyrill and Methodi from Bular Site

In 886, invited by Prince Boris-Michael, the disciples of the Slav apostles Cyril and Methodius, who had been sent away from Greater Moravia by that time, arrived in Bulgaria. They were received with great honours by the Bulgarian governor of Belgrade (Serbia’s capital today) as soon as they had reached the border. With the approval of Boris I, two spiritual centres of tremendous significance for Slavic culture were formed in the capital city of Pliska, as well as in the other central town – Ohrid, in Macedonia. Only in Ohrid, in the course of 7 years as many as 3500 students were educated.

Knez Boris

NY Times

Discreditet appelant from Macedonia

In foreign Lands

Greek national Costume is that of Albanian Brigand

Balkan revolution and its effect on Austria

Travel through the Balkans 1900

Macedonian Agitation

Macedonian Plot in Italy – Sarafov

Macedonian Revolutionaries arested by Bulgarians

Goce Delchev Dead

Sarafov with the Armenian Comunity

Sarafov reported Killed

Sarafov talks of Pan-Macedonian revolution

Turkish cowerds

Macedonian Struggle for Freedom

Greek view on Macedonia prior 1900

As recently as the 19th century the official view of Greek history was that “the Greek Penisula had been struggling for independence from foreign domination ever since the ancient Greeks had been conquered by the Macedonian armies in 338 BC”

Taken from:
Anna Triandafyllidou, “National identity and the Other”, Ethnic and racial studies, Vol 21, No 4, July 1998, p. 605